During a game last night between the Hawks and Americans there was a controversial play on a steal attempt by a Hawks player. The throw from the catcher was wide a short of the bag and the fielder had to come away from the bag and to the right of second base to grab the ball. The runner who saw the open base continued to run inside the base path and the fielder turned around and tagged the runner as he was running past him but dropped the ball. The runner was safe. The runner made no attempt to go into the fielder, rather it was the fielder who turned and hit the runner with the glove. The manager of the Americans protested that the runner had to slide. That was rediculous since it was the fielder who initiated the contact. To make matters worse the regular umpire did not show up so each opposing teams used one of there players as umps (an issue I'm sure the managers will take up with the league). The umpire in this case was an the American player and after his manager came out he invoked the the Slide rule which killed a rally. This was an abuse of the spirit of the rule to gain an edge. By the way, overall the 2 player umps overall did their best under tough circumstances.
My question to the League Board or Rules Committee how do you interpret that play?
By the way I agree with the slide rule, but it should not be abused.
Artie you are 100% correct the slide rule is becoming a joke. The rule is in place to penalize a runner when he initiates contact, period. In our game Friday night a runner was called out for not sliding on a force play when the ball didn't even reach the fielder in time to get the runner and the runner stayed within the basepath. If the rule is going to be enforced in this manner a runner will have to slide every time an attempt is made to get him out regardless of whether he knows he's going to be safe or not. It will ruin the game. It is getting out of hand.
Artie you are 100% correct the slide rule is becoming a joke. The rule is in place to penalize a runner when he initiates contact, period.
Sliding should not be considered an attempt to avoid contact. In one of our games this season a runner slid into me with his spikes up. He initiated contact with me.
I will say that I deserved it. I was catching and standing in the baseline blocking the plate awaiting a throw and his spikes caught my shin guard up near the knee and knocked me off balance in order to score the run. I play the position of catcher fully aware that I can and will put my body in harm's way every single game.
And when you think about it, in the case I just pointed out, by sliding the runner is more apt to be injured than the catcher by forcing him to slide. If he catches a spike on my shin guard wrong he could turn his ankle and sprain or perhaps break his ankle. The catcher is far more protected from injury than the runner in that case.
-- Edited by The_Hurricane on Tuesday 6th of July 2010 12:34:09 PM
If a runner is going into 2nd, 3rd or home plate and INITIATES contact with a fielder who is catching a throw or attempring to catch a throw or is about to catch a throw, the runner is out and is subject to ejection if malicious. If you slide and make contact, legal play as long as the spikes are not above he fielder's knee.
Artie, if the way you described the play is accurate, then the runner should have been ruled safe. Note above the word INITIATES.
In our game in which Wayne describes, the fielder was about to catch a throw at 2nd base for an attempted force out. The runner stayed up and bumped into the fielder. The runner appeared to beat the throw, but he INITIATED contact with the fielder while standing up. Runner is out. THAT's the rule. Live with it. If you can't slide, then run out of the way of the play - or, simply, don't play baseball. Sliding is a part of the game. Running into fielders is not. JimK
THAT's the rule. Live with it. If you can't slide, then run out of the way of the play - or, simply, don't play baseball. Sliding is a part of the game. Running into fielders is not. JimK
What about a catcher? Running over catchers has always been part of the game.
Also, what about 1B? What if a 1Bman is stradling the 1B bag? I had to dodge a 1Bman in a different game this season in order to avoid contact, should I have been called out for failing to slide?
Not trying to be snarky here, genuinely asking these questions as I would think these would be open to interpretation.
In our game if the runner beat the throw and didn't go out of the baseline how can he be called out? It is the fielder's responsibility to get out of the path of the runner or off the base. If the runner doesn't initiate contact there is no foul. Suppose I'm on ist headed towards 2nd and I can tell I'm going to be safe but the second baseman throws it anyways and the ss cuts across the bag in anticipation of a throw. When do I determine that I have to slide not to be called out? It's laughable. Do you wan't to play baseball or something else. If it starts hurting players feelings to lose maybe we shouldn't keep score anymore either. Few run the bases more aggresively than I do and in 14 years I've been playing in this league I've never hurt anyone. The game is perfect let's not get carried away with this rule. If the runner initiates contact he's out. Suspend him , do what you have to to protect the fielder but don't ruin the game by being overzealous.
Did the home team check Arbiter (like they are supposed to) to see if someone was assigned? If they had, this could have been avoided and the play may have been called correctly.
Regarding the slide rule:
I agree there is a bit of ambiguity/misunderstanding, however I would blame most of that on the individual managers not taking the time to fully understand the new rule. It seems most of the time/effort about the new rule is complaining about it, which will get you absolutely nowehere. To my knowledge, no managers have requested a review of the rule at any of the monthly Board meetings, which are open to anyone from the league.
What ever happened to Common Sense. A comment "like live with it" is irresponsible and lame. To go forward we must be flexible and logical. Not try to defend a rule but to make the adjustments necessary for the game to be played properly in the spirit of the rule.
The comment you allude to was made about a different game and a different set of circumstances. If the account is correct, then the ruling on the play was correct - seems that is where the comment comes from. It's been a little warm, and perhaps more flowery language could have been used, however the fact remains the same. The rule is in place and the place to debate it is not on the fields/parking lots, etc.
In early June I received,and I think other manger's received, an explanation of the slide rule from Mark Fitch the lead umpire for ENYUA/SBUO. It came up because of a play in a game at Collins Park. In explaining the umpire's ruling Mark stated, "It was interference because the runner, although he does not have to slide, he does have to slide if the alternative is interfering with play...." He then goes on to explain a legal slide and a slide which is not legal, and on the occasion of a not legal slide the runner can be charged with interference and called out, and possibly the batter could be called out if the umpire judges that the defense could have completed the play without the interference. But in his notes he stated explicitly that "The runner is never required to slide. If he does slide, it must be legal. If he does not slide, he must avoid interfering with the play." I believe there has been a misinterpretation of this "slide rule". The main purpose of the league in instituting this rule was to avoid malicious contact by the runner into the fielder. On reading the examples by Artie and Wayne it sounds to me the rule was misapplied. We are not talking about ticky-tack contact but contact that is malicious in intent or of such a degree that it interferes with the fielder making a play. I have played a little second base and have had a few dust-ups but most of them have simply happened because of legal play by both the runner and fielder doing their best to play the game as it is meant to be played. Baseball is not known as a contact sport but when played properly there will be some amount of contact. As long as it is not malicious it is accepted as a part of this great game.
dbwixon
-- Edited by dbwixon on Tuesday 6th of July 2010 06:37:09 PM
-- Edited by dbwixon on Tuesday 6th of July 2010 06:40:02 PM
Rob, I don't want to get into this tit-for-tat here. I did not address collisions at 1B for a reason. The rule is different.
We play amended MLB rules and the slide rule is one of those amendments. In short, you obviously don't have to slide into first base. Collisions will happen on plays at first; the only caveat is malicious intent, which is in the judgment of the umpire, or running out of the designated basepath.
to the teams involved here. the umpire was assigned but had a late cancellation. my normal procedure was to find a quick replacement within our ranks but all 4 were occupied otherwise. I then tried thru the ENYUA and because they wanted confirmation about some details after my request that assignment failed unbeknownst to me as I was on top of a mountain in the wilderness. thus the calamity proceeded. my apologies for letting you guys down. as remedy in the future I will try to appoint a second in command so things can be avoided. with other issues surrounding this game and perhaps others I will bring them to the attention of the board at the proper time. J Reel 55 comm.
